Reputations of Nicky Hager and Jon Stephenson executed by NZDF firing squad this afternoon

9 Comments

1. Your BNZ Ponsonby/ANZ Queen Street analogy is ridiculous. Regardless of whether lawyers tried to get the case thrown out you’d still be guilty of robbing a bank.

2. Your claim that Nicky Hager’s and Jon Stephenson’s reputation is in tatters is only reasonable if you believe that the NZDF, through Gen. Tim Keeting, isn’t lying through it’s teeth. For instance, he said nine identified insurgents were killed, but HE CAN’T NAME THEM”!! In which case, they’ve obviously not been identified. In addition, the NZDF has been caught out lying not that long ago about their role in Afghanistan, and trying to persuade others to lie on its behalf, for which matter Jon Stephenson gained substantial damages for repeated defamation. Until the NZDF produce the evidence they claim they have, and despite your obvious prejudice against these two journalists, you’d be much wiser to hold your opinion, and consider the extensive history of military bungles, needless suffering and cover-ups here and overseas. War and lies are inseparable sides of the same destructive coin.

3. John, think about your argument for a second. The head of NZDF fronts a news conference, knowing that military ‘sources’ have already leaked stuff to the authors, and lies “through his teeth”. That’s a career-ending lie if that happened, and so easy to catch him on that it isn’t funny. Do you really think the head of NZDF would be THAT stupid? If they say they know the exact village they attacked and have video that presumably political leaders could be cleared to view, does it not occur to you that they might actually be telling the truth? Hager and Stephenson appear to have relied on grapevine talk to link op Burnham to the casualties they talk about. But if those casualties definitely died in villages on the other side of two mountain ranges, then they can’t have been killed by NZSAS.

   Is it possible the villagers may have lied to Hager etc about their Taliban sympathies?

4. You miss the point. If someone robbed the BNZ Ponsonby and it wasn’t you, it is a separate crime. Hager and Co appear to have tried to pin someone else’s crime on the wrong suspect. Either get them for something they HAVE done, or shut up.

5. Iwishart: Do you think the head of the NZDF would be that stupid, you rhetorically ask. Indeed, that’s exactly what I’m claiming. Not just stupid, but totally cynical. And if he’s proven to be lying, I trust it will be career ending. Because if Hager and Stephenson have got their basic facts wrong, it will be career ending for them, as so helpfully pointed out in this article. The NZDF have form in “lying through their teeth” In regard to this recent claim about the killing of civilians, since 2011 the NZDF categorically stated, many times, in many public forums, that no civilians were killed. They were lying, as they now admit “at least one civilian was killed”. OK, one isn’t six, but it’s getting there. They initially didn’t even admit to being part of this raid when it was first reported. In addition Wayne Mapp admitted after the operation that it was a “complete fiasco”, he hasn’t elaborated on what exactly he meant by this, but does confirm this is what he did say. In contrast Gen Keeting’s claims that the NZDF have never operated in Afghanistan except with extreme professionalism. So is Wayne Mapp lying too? In the NZ Herald an SAS soldier confirmed in a separate interview with David Fisher ” “civilians were killed in a 2010 raid carried out by the unit and says the truth is widely known among the elite military group. The soldier told the Herald the two people found shot dead were killed by NZSAS marksmen”. Please refer to the NZ Herald ( e.g. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11824932 )for more complete information. The whole NZDF engagement in Afghanistan was based on a lie, as they weren’t there just for “reconstruction” but were active participants in the US so-called War on Terror. I don’t know if you’ve read the book “Hit and Run” but perhaps you should do so as it gives a lot of revealing information on the nature of the secrecy surrounding the NZDF presence in Afghanistan, and the confusion about what exactly their mission was supposed to be. In addition as I mentioned, the NZDF spent several years repeatedly slandering Jon Stephenson with an out and out lie, spending around $1 million of your and my money, defending the indefensible, lying through their teeth, and spending perhaps up to another $1/2 million in undisclosed damages to Jon Stephenson when the truth literally could not be hidden any longer. The fact is the NZDF is pulling a well-practiced political trick, just deny the problem, it doesn’t have to matter how ridiculous the denial is, eventually the media and the public will get fed up with the subject and move on to something else. I think a re-reading of the events of 1968 at Mi Lai in Vietnam might serve to remind those who doubt Hager and Stephenson on the nature of criminality in war and the eventual exposure of truth despite the best endeavours of those in authority to cover-up such events over many years.
   Now, I wasn’t there, and I cannot be entirely sure that everything that Hager and Stephenson wrote was entirely accurate. Perhaps they were deceived, unlikely, but possible. But that’s what an enquiry would tell us, wouldn’t it. So what are is the NZDF so afraid of. They’ve had ample opportunity to tell a robust, logical and consistent story, about six year’s opportunity, and they’ve totally failed to do this over all this time..

6. Do you actually think that someone else would be conducting a mission 2 kms away from a mission that the NZDF were conducting without the NZDF being aware of it happening?

7. As someone who prides himself on uncovering corruption etc., you seem to have an unhealthy glee in slamming Nicky and Jon. Read their response to NZDF claims on the Spinoff website and listen to Paul Buchanon’s interview on RNZ this morning (30.3.17). The NZDF have been caught out obfuscating and obstructing before. Rather than trying to score a point, wouldn’t it be better to ask for an inquiry? Then the truth will out, and if N/J are proved wrong, then you can gloat.

8. Mandy…if Nicky and Jon can get past what Heather due Plessis Allan called “very sloppy journalism” and convincingly prove Keating has misled NZ…I will be the first to abandon my current position and call for an inquiry… But the admission N and J got the names of the villages wrong doesn’t fill me with confidence.

9. Completely concur with this assessment of Nicky Hager and Jon Stephenson. Journalists need to make sure they have solid evidence before they try and accuse the NZDF of war crimes. These soldiers risk their lives to protect NZ and its interests, they act with the utmost professionalism and scum like Nicky Hager and Jon Stephenson drag their name through the mud based on hearsay and flimsy evidence. It is ironic that they accuse the NZDF of planning their operation based on flimsy intelligence when one week after launching their book it seems pretty well all of their claims are unfounded. Most likely a raid actually never took place in Nicky’s villages and most of the testimonies are lies. Anyone who has spent much time in Afghanistan would know how frequently locals will lie through their teeth about damages from western forces as there’s a chance they will get compensation. It’s just a pity that Nicky seems to have based a whole book on it.
   Some of his claims are laughable: “they lit the mattresses on fire by shooting bullets into them”. Hahaha are these explosive rounds or something Nicky? Go buy some rounds, shoot them into a mattress and see if you can get it to catch on fire. Base your books on reality, not action movies you stupid hippy.

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